#455 — The Bitcoin Group #455 - Coinbase LEAK! - Arizona - Steak n Shake - More Companies

The Bitcoin Group, the American original for over the last ten years, the sharpest said Tooshi's the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the Crypto Raptor. Hey, Hey, Happy Friday, Long Gault. From Bitcoin Magazine, Hello there, Robert Allen from coin Cube, Hello hello, and I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one issue one Coinbase didn't get hacked. Coinbase employees sold customer data on the black market. Coinbase failed to protect customer data. Yes, that's right. Somehow everyone you know is in the one percent getting those Coinbase texts today, as Brian Armstrong traded to get cheap labor and you the Coinbase users get kidnapped. Yes, cyber criminals bribed and recruited rogue overseas support agents likely underpaid to pull personal data on less than one percent of coinbase MTUs. Whatever that means. No passwords, private keys,

or funds were exposed. Prime accounts are untouched. I don't know what that means either. We will reimburse impacted customers, How on earth will they restore your privacy? They claim that they were attacked twenty million dollar at ransom, which they refuse to pay, and now they're using the twenty million dollars to try to fight these hackers. This is just after the report we talked about a few weeks ago where Coinbase allowed their users to fall prey to social engineering scams. Now Coinbase themselves has fallen prey to hiring cheap support agents leading to hacks. Dan Eve, what do you think about this stunning news from Coinbase completely knocking their addition to the S and P five hundred off the board. Off the board they replaced Discover Card. I would want to open with that, I can't. Yeah, that's really a bit of a kick in the teeth

right right the last minute on the day though, But a couple of days after we're getting the news that they're being added to the S ANDP. And apparently this happens more than a few days ago and they've only just reported it. I mean, it sounds like Brian Armstrong's doing a bit of a bold move right by saying they're going to offer twenty million arrest leading to the arrest of the hackers. So he's doing a kind of mel gims at Gibson. Is it ransom or you know sort of approach, but it doesn't sound good, right, They're obviously in charge of a lot of people's sensitive data. Where we've also seen recently that CEO's daughter or granddaughter of an exchange that got beaten and almost kidnapped in France. So we've had a various instances, you know, over the last year. There was someone that wasn't there a

French exchange guy that had his finger cut off in a in a hijacking sort of kidnapping attempt. So it's a it's a very serious thing that definitely happens. And our data is you know, as bitcoin is, our data needs to be protected. So this is this is a big issue for Coinbase. I did see a funny tweet that I don't know if it was real, but it was like from apparently from a from a hacker that said, hey, I was gonna I was gonna hack you, but I realized that you've been holding ethereum since four thousand dollars, so you're screwed anyway, and also change your password. But yeah, this is bad from Coinbase. And remember that these guys are custodians for some of the biggest institutions, as well, this isn't just customer funds. These are These guys are holding for the big guns, so it's

not a good image for them. But hopefully if they find the hackers, attackers and get that money back, I'm sure it can be traced as it always is. Well, I think the real the real criminals, the real ones who allowed this crime to happen, are at Coinbase. The fault is with themselves. You think they would have learned after hiring that hacking team that was accused of criminal violations of other people, including hospitals and other such political targets to it matters who you hire, it matters who you pay, and Coinbase should have thought this out from the beginning. From the beginning, their customer data was the most important thing we saw with the hack of I think it was Ledger. I want to say where their public marketing database was hacked? Sir. Their their private stuff was private, but they let the marketing guy have his

own email. It was like a mail Chimp account or something. They got all the emails and all the names. This seems to be much worse. It seems like they got the emails, the names, maybe the home addresses, and perhaps the amount of money and bitcoin that you moved through Coinbase. So this is very bad. It's going to be leaked, it's going to be sold, it's going to be resold. It's hugely embarrassing the Coinbase, who seems bulletproof otherwise but keeps failing in these little ways. Like we talked about in the opening, that they're not protecting their users from phishing scams. You can transfer out tons of money, there's no kind of controls or anything. There's no default controls. It really seems out of control. Robert Allen, what do you think about Coinbase and the latest troubles. Well, I think they owe my parents one point five

bitcoin because my parents were scammed about a month ago. They had their phone number, address, all sorts of information they called them. You know, my parents are seventy nine and eighty one, and uh, you know they're getting older. So they were just too trusting. And these people, obviously, when you have a ton of information about someone and you call and you say, hey, we're calling from Coinbase, you know, they didn't know better, sadly, and then the guys started doing stuff. He was like, well, don't call anyone because your phone's been hacked. So they didn't call any of their children, because of course we would have told him like calm down, don't do anything. But yeah, they basically social engineered him out of yeah, one point five bitcoin it was in It was in a block stream green wallet. But my dad apparently gave them the

you know, it was a six digit pin and apparently they I mean they they say that they did not send them. They did not send the bitcoin, uh to anyone. So as far as we know, like maybe they got some kind of a you know, malware device onto his phone. I don't know. It's it's a bit of a mystery. But all we know is the money gone. Yeah, it's pretty devastating. That was you know, a good piece of their nest egg that's just evaporated. So but I mean, I will say not to defend coinbase, but you know, part of the issue here is that the laws that surround all of this are just ridiculous. To begin with KYC and all these things. All this does is turn exchanges and these sorts of institutions into honeypots that are like a natural target for people. And you

can't expect, like, you know, even if they were paying people. I don't know, five times as much as they were paying these you know, support people, like at some point when you're talking about millions and millions and millions of dollars of people's assets, oftentimes not held on coinbase, right, Potentially, it's very very risky for anyone to have this kind of information about people and their money, given the way that bitcoin works. So, you know, I'm not hopeful that things will change anytime soon, but it's really ludicrous to force people to divulge, you know, sensitive information that could be leaked in this kind of way. So it's yeah, pretty devastating. Coinbase. Please send my parents to the money that you help them lose. They claim on the site that it's all insured and they're going to refund customers. But they never have before. We know of

lots of people back in the old days who were hacked or tricked or fished or whatever it was, and Coinbase is, you know, the part that failed. They could have said no, you can't withdraw this, or no this seems odd anything like that, especially if your parents are withdrawing that much money and moving it from here to there. But like you said, it's just a way for the scammers to get in, and then they talked them out of some other money. They might have not even had the funds in Coinbase, like you said, oh. They didn't get their coin Base money exactly. Yep, yeah, hilarious. So they didn't get the coin Base money, but the Coinbase error might have led them to your parents, which led to the hack, which of. Course coin Base is not. But it's all, like you say, because of Coinbase

having to keep KYC and then undervaluing it, which I still fought them for. But they're in a major security business, like every single hole has to be fixed, and I'm sure they saved money on support. But like it's sad to say, but overseas is you know, translation inexpensive one got What do you think about coinbase is latest failure. I mean, it breaks my heart to hear that your parents got got scan robbery. That's fucking crazy, that really really yeah, breaks my heart. I think, I mean, to me, this is this is bigger than Coinbase. I think it's actually like the amount of traction that is getting on social media suggests that maybe we need to point the momentum towards the cause, which is, you know, the Patriot Act, which as far as I recall, got smuggled in right after nine to eleven and based forced

every financial institution to be a surveillance arm of the US government during their attempt at imposing sanctions on everybody that you know, wasn't you know, I mean terrorists and so on, and you know, fair enough, but that era is definitely passed. Those teriffs don't work. You know, Russia has been tariffed as much as you can possibly tariff more or less any country or historically, like, they've been teriffed incredibly, and they still won the war, and they're still kicking ass and they you know, so, so I think I think the tariff regime is basically over. I think the sooner the regulators accept that, the better. I think that the outrage over this hack is just a reminder and an opportunity for us to push back against this nonsense regulation. I think politicians and regulators need to become aware that we're no longer in the age of

paper banks or of physical banks with pay per k where you see data. You know, like all this infrastructure was thought out really before, Like the idea of authenticating users based on their name and phase this is pre Internet. Great infrastructure to authenticate users. You would show up to your bank with your idea and the guy would like compare like they're you know, like when you're going to a club or whatever, and then they will let you access your money. Right, that is not the world we're living today. These these big tech companies, these centralized these corporations are incapable of securing customer data. And it's not just coin Base. There's a long history of hacks that have occurred in the past twenty years. I'll read you some. Equifax twenty seventeen exposed one hundred and forty seven million records including social security numbers and addresses due

to well application vulnerability. Maria twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen, over three hundred million guest records such as pass per numbers, payment details were stolen over four years, and I mean twenty fifteen forty nine million medical records including social security numbers and addresses. The OPM hack of twenty fourteen is twenty one million federal records including social security numbers and fingerprints were compromised. I could go on, and the reality is pretty much every American social security every American social security number, has been hacked like ninety percent of them, and this information cannot be unhacked. It is out in the dark web. The result is seen in fraud rates in the identity fraud rates that I've gone for fourteen from fourteen billion dollars a year in twenty twelve to fifty billion dollars a year in the US in twenty twenty, and they will only continue. And the only

solution in the age of AI, when you can impersonate and fake everything, add with incredible ease, the only solution is actually cryptographic money. Cryptography is the only solution. We need to apply it to authentication, and we need to apply it better. People that are that have significant amounts of money in bitcoin need to move to multi sick need to make it so that that is very difficult for them to move their money. Should you shouldn't be able to move two hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoins with a few clicks within a few hours. It should be annoyingly difficult. But I think the moment, I think this energy that people are are, this anger that people are going to be feeling over the next few weeks as the sort of consequences of this hack, social engineering hack kind of play out. I think we need to

direct it, add politicians and add regulators to roll back this Patriot Act bullshit that has been getting people had for twenty years. Said. It's a major change, one like you're saying, from analog to digital. In the old days, you could steal paper records one at a time. You could photocopy them, you could write down the names, or steal the credit cards, make a copy of them. In the new age, the records are the same as bitcoin. If you get access to them, you steal them all all at once, you copy them all once they're loose. It's even worse than bitcoin because, like you say, they can't be taken back. The social security numbers are all out there. I do think we're gonna have to address KYC. But how will these institutions continue. How will coinbase be able to report you to the I R S

if they don't know your name to report you to the IRS? Seems like a major problem for their whole You know, White Night, we are the good guys of Bitcoin Strategy, and for all the other bitcoin holding companies as well. I saw another company a tweet about their approach, which is to create paper copies and which get vaulted immediately, so split and vaulted, so there's no online copy that can just be stolen. You know, in order to be able to get hold of people's KYC data, they have to go and get literally get out of as safe. That seems like a slightly batre option than keeping people's pictures addresses online that you can link up with their accounts. Yeah, it's a it's a huge problem. The whole the whole industry, the whole legacy industry has sort of retrofitted themselves into the digital age with very

poor quality processes. I mean, even if it's end to an encrypted and they do their best, it's just fundamentally impossible to keep this information secure. And it would honestly, I don't know, it's not it's not gonna be easy to fix this, but it would be. It would need like a deep rooted upgrade. And and it starts with deregulating, Like if you stop forcing financial institutions to keep these records forever and make them quickly accessible, right like, all the stuff that they gotta do, if you stop, if you stop forcing them, they'll figure it out. But right now, there's a gun from the government to their head and a gun from the from the hackers on the other and they're just trying to survive. And yeah, I think I think that I think we just got to roll this ship back. We've got to roll back

this this regulation. Yeah, and Thomas I would also say, I think we need to move to a post income tax world. It's I mean, it's it's unconstitutional to begin with, it's immoral, but like you know, sadly we may just end up with both. But I do like some of the ideas that have been floated by the Trump administration to replace income tax with tariffs. Like I'd rather people pay for consumption and then hopefully be more mindful about what they consume than to basically, you know, hamstring people for working hard and trying to do better in life. And also all of the accounting bullshit that goes into trying to keep track of what they earned and who they need to pay and how much. I mean, it's just and of course, the only people who really get hosed in all this are the are the poor

people. Wealthier people. I mean, like I have LLCs. You know, you set up a couple of lcs and you do your taxes carefully. You're not cheating, but you can basically avoid paying a lot of what sort of you know, average normies would pay. So it's the whole thing is a is a big, just big stinking pile of shit. And I pray to God that we can move past that in this world because it's just a huge waste of time and energy. We could always tax the corporations and maybe the churches, but don't think about that. I think we also have to worry here about corporate America's attitude towards tech support and really the lowest workers. If you think about it, it's the lowest job, it's entry level. They have the worst pay, the worst hours, the worst treatment, especially with the amazonization of work where

everything is tagged and timed and how many replies did you go out this hour? And how many cases did you close? These people need access to this data, they had access to it, and from what we've read, they sold that access. So maybe they're going to have to pay tech support a lot more and humans. But tom is my point is, even if you pay them five ten x more than what they're getting, you could still find someone in that group who you could buy off. Because the the amount of value that you get from stealing all of that informating think they got, you know, rough one hundred and fifty to hundred K from my parents, from one little, poor old couple, right, I mean you multiply that by millions of people. It's just it's like it's like Wan said, you cannot contain that information

in a digital age and the way the world works today, it's impossible, and the incentives are just not aligned. You will always find someone who you can, you know, bribe. So it's I think it's an untenable and workable solution, you know, situation, and has nothing to me really all that much to do with, you know, underpaid people. I think it's just the mechanics of how it all set. Up well and and the people that are underpaid for these jobs, which, by the way, I did. I did customer support, I did I did I did telephone tech support. I've done a lot of it through my career various ways. But I when I started my working this was something that they did for years. If the job sucks, it paid. I learned some stuff. It wasn't too bad, but it was not great, you know. But

all those jobs are going to disappear thanks to AI, Like, AI is going to replace eighty percent of those customer service jobs, and so the ones that remain are going to be high, you know, high experience, high expertise jobs where you're basically the end of the food chain, of the support chain, so to speak. And yeah, so I mean, I don't know if that Yeah, like I think, but it might be true that you got to pay them more. But I agree with Robert, I don't think you can pay them enough because we're talking about you know, boomers with millions of dollars on coinbase that are just soft targets. You know, you can always drive your way through that, I think. I think it's also worth taking a look at the way that the database was likely designed, how much access the customer support people

had access to it. They might have to mask that data, they might have to change the customer names, not provide access to the numbers in the account. Certainly, if you have X number of bitcoin, they can't show that. And I think one there's a lesson to be learned there as well. When they hook up the AI, if they hook up the AI to their full database, they're really lazy about it. The AI will have these same access problems if they're not masking this data. If they're not you know, looking at it from the beginning, like this customer's home address is very important, it's going to leak. Well, I do you think they're right? And I was gonna say a little problem with this theory of it's just you know, end user customer support agents that would have hacked it because I've worked again, I've worked

in like one I've wanted in multiple jobs where I've had customer support and roles, and in none of those roles was I able to in any way extrapolate a whole series of data from the database. It was an individual individual basis right, and half of them you had to put a comment every time you go into the account, so you know who's enter the account, what you did, what you did when logs it with the system that call came in. So I think I think there's a bit So there's probably more to this story. It's not like an individual like a few guys that have been outsourced. This is someone who's actually had access to their database in some way, rather than just you know a few kind of customer support agents. It seems like there's got to be more to it. I mean, the

bottom line is this information is not necessary to the business. You can send the direct deposit or or you know, if you if you must, but you're going to have to pay buy the coin with FIAT somehow. But there's already that's those are probably not the rails that got hacked. That information is being held there for other purposes, for compliance purposes, with regulatory concerns. They're not that that information is not held there out of a purpose business purpose, and and so that's the problem. It's it's it's just maladaptive and so and and like this is actually a very profound civilization problem that that that if it doesn't get fixed, you're just gonna keep getting worse, and it's just gonna keep keep claiming victims. And I don't think it's customer support. I honestly don't even believe coin based. Coin based is a giant's it's monstrously big.

They have too many customers, and it's like, I don't know that anybody in the world could keep that information safe. They are the biggest honey pot you could think of. And of course they're going to get attacked from every angle, in every direction. And if it wasn't coin basic, it would be binanswer it with somebody else. And like again, like I have a list of twenty different hacks that are ridiculous that I could keep reading you. It's impossible to keep that information safe. Anybody that knows anything about cybersecurity understands it's impossible to be a thousand people corporation and keep this kind of information secure. You can do everything you want to write about the ai DA, it's just going to get prompt engineered into giving that information if it's sort of if it's accessible to it, So we just have to I guess we just

have to adapt. And unfortunately we can only adopt that the speed of our most aggressive politicians, which is a huge problem. Well, and one of the ways they could fix this problem is with encryption, but it takes away their access to the data. As we all know, Facebook is built on advertising. They have to see your data so that they can target the ads. If they encrypted all the data on the platform, they wouldn't have access to it anymore. And the same way if coinbase was encrypting your account information, how much money you have, all these things, they wouldn't have access to it. They couldn't, you know, print it out and send you mailings and things like this, which is what it's all about. And to go to what Dan and Wanner saying, I have worked at an early startup, and while I didn't have

access as marketing, I do think the programmers had an extreme amount of access to the data at the company. And you know, fortunately it all worked out and all that, but if they had been bad, if they had been bribed, if they had been threatened, who knows what could have happened to that data. And I think a lot of early startups so this way, maybe coin Base had growing troubles. What they are like Wanza, They're so big now they should have been ready for this, and they look horrible. But we've got more on coin Base, just a little bit more. Coin Base considered and decided against Michael Sailor's bitcoin buying strategy. Coin Base was tempted to go in on buying bitcoin but considered the scheme too risky. And I think this goes back to Coinbase not understanding bitcoin. Why they would add all the alt

coins, why would they have the education factory for the alt coins, why would they do all this other goofy stuff. They really don't understand bitcoin. So even as they were right there being a bitcoin only company or having just a couple of coins, and they could have been the ones with that huge, huge storage of bitcoin, but they aren't. Let's just go really quick around the horn, Dan, what do you think is pretty the obvious coin base abandoning bitcoin not understanding it. I remember when they pulled the funding for the San Francisco bitcoin meet up. We just gave out pizza and beer, you. Know, but they pulled the funding because they don't understand bitcoin. Dan, Yeah, it seems seems really odd to be to be you know what is realistically a shitcoin casino for them for not to have a bit more bitcoin exposure, especially

a company that started off with with I think they were were they bitcoin only first of all, and then they then they added them, so it's it's it's strange for a company that but they also didn't, you know, they pushed bitcoin cash, right, so they didn't really have that much they faith in bitcoin, and they for a long while when you went on there and searched bitcoin, you would have bitcoin cash as the first option that came up, which was really confusing for people. So it has been disappointed, and you send someone to coin base to buy bitcoin and they come back with some random coin because they got more. You got more random coin. Then you do bitcoins too expensive? Robert, what do you think about Coinbase not seeing this Michael Sailor strategy? Which is funny because all the bitcoiners I know, they buy

and hold, right, they don't. There's not much to it, and yet everyone else could copy this, right. Yeah. I was thinking back, you know, early days, like twenty fourteen or so. I remember thinking that Coinbase was actually kind of like a mature, cautious you know. It's because they had Bitcoin, and I think they added light Coin and maybe two or three others, and then you had you know, Cripsy, and I mean all these you know, just shit coin casino kind of places. So for a while they were kind of being like the adults in a sense, or at least not as you know, blatant. But I guess I kind of lost interest before they just went they threw in the towel all the way. I don't Yeah, I don't know. I guess they just don't, you know. And maybe it's it's being like in Silicon

Valley and the money and whatever but I guess I would say they don't seem to be a very principled company, right, it's just sort of like whatever is going on that they can make a quick buck and kind of jump on the next bandwagon, clearly not understanding bitcoin or caring enough to do the research to understand it. Strange, you know, I don't know. It's definitely a bizarre kind of situation with that company. Well, and that how many flips they must have gone through. I know that point where you look at bitcoin you're like, oh, I should have bought it. Then it's a whole nother you know, X number higher, and then it's an X number higher, And if you were working at that company, you think you would really see it. But I really think the metaphor here goes back to Major League Baseball with

Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds was a five tool player. He could steal bases, physically, he had it all. But he looks over and he sees McGuire and Sosa on the steroids pounding out these home runs in the same way coinbase like you're saying, was seeing cripsy, seeing all these coin exchanges getting super lucky on all coins, and they say you know, forget about our principles. We'll shoot the steroids too, and off they go coin Base offering every alt kind ut of the sun wan goat, what do you think really quick on a coin base not buying and holding bitcoin like the rest of us. I mean, you know again, like I Don'm not trying to bash the coin base, but it's very impressive how many bad decisions they've made around, like apparently bad decisions, right, Like they've been on the wrong side of every FOURK, on

the wrong side of every drama, on the wrong side of every coin, on the wrong side of the you know what I mean, Like they went super ear in on Ethereum, and Ethereum is just getting corb curb stump. I can't say curb curb stumped, and that they sort of went for the ALcom casino market and the Alchemists are getting crushed, you know, big condominance is reaching sixty percent or something set or more. Right, Like, it's impressive how they've managed to fail their way to success. And I think that the main way that they've done it is by complying really really hard. You know, they've really complied hard, and and that's where I guess you get VC money. I suppose, I don't know, but they're now the the most It's weird. It's like they try to make bit point in crypto trat fight, you know, and

so they and so that's how they managed to kind of get into the money, get into the legacy money. But the result is, you know, they're just kind of in like the the worst of both worlds. I don't envy their position, to be honest, but yeah. It does seem that there's another universe out there where a more principled coin Base just held bitcoin and just didn't even need the money from the big people, could have just held bitcoin, sold bitcoin, kept buying it. Meanwhile, we just like to say congratulations to coin Base becoming the first bitcoin and crypto company to join the S and P five hundred. They knocked out Discover Finance, which is funny in its own way. And normally we would have talked about this for the whole segment, but we can't. Moving on to issue too. Arizona governor kills two crypto bills,

cracks down on bitcoin ATMs. Arizona Governor Katie Hobbes rejected bills to establish a state bitcoin reserve and accept crypto payments, but signed a bill regulating crypto ATMs, warning people about scams with large messages on the ATMs and limits of how much you can withdraw and transfer per day. Robert Allen, what do you think about the Arizona governor vetoing two bills and signing the ATM protection bill. She's damning her state. I don't know, not smart, but you know, I mean, I guess overall, that's and I think we're further along in terms of uh sort of institutional understanding and adoption than I would have expected by now. Now, of course, the one thing that no one wants to talk about is you know, capital gains and making bitcoin legal tender. That's really what should be talked about. That's the main thing. So that, you know, disappoints me

that we don't have more, you know, like lummus and these types who think, you know, are all about bitcoin, like they should be pushing for that. So that disappoints me. But nonetheless, I'm kind of digressing here. Yeah, I mean, Katie hobbles her state. I don't know. I mean, it's interesting. I do think bitcoin will go up, but I'm just not sure about the state holding investment funds in general, Like I think Facebook stock's great, or Microsoft or Apple or whatever. But I'm not saying start an Apple reserve yet. Historically I could put look at Apple stock and say, wow, it's gone great. It seems like governments are more about taking money spending on program the programs are good or bad. We have a big debate about that they should have more or less programs. We have a big debate about that. But this idea that

suddenly everyone's in favor of government holding bitcoin because we all like pitcoin. I don't know. I don't see it. Wan Goll, what do you think about Arizona? The governor of veto two bills and signed one. Yeah, I mean, I don't really. I don't really know exactly how government works at this level. I assume that they have treasuries and that they're trying to maintain a certain amount of independence. I'm assuming that they have they have some man they do have, like a balanced budget or a positive budget that they don't want to be that the more the lesson that they are to third parties, the more sovereign that they are, the more independence they have. So like I understand why they might think, well, maybe we got to hold a little some money that is a little bit more efficient in case of a rainy day,

in case of some sort of you know, tragedy or crisis, you know, like some sort of you know, an earthquake or something like that. It's like, yeah, you want to have some money in the bank, as anybody else does. So I understand that side of things. I think the ATM scams are an interesting angle as well. You know, I would love to see some data on how many people are actually getting scammed, not just in the associated with the crypto world, because this is just you know, the problem is that people are quite honestly tachulterate, and then the government is entirely incapable and apathetic to protect them. It seems, you know, like if we're going to have governments, we might as well have governments that are efficient that at chasing down criminals. And I think that I think that the cyber crime side of things,

it's just completely out of it just seems to be completely out of their scope, you know, like they just don't know, you know, like they have they surveil everything, and yet they can't catch any criminals. I just very very dysfunctional society and moment. That we're in. It does seem one like the ATM bill might not be successful. Putting warnings on there isn't going to work if the guy on the phone says he's kidnapped your family or whatever that is. I like that the limits. I think limits are a good idea. But also if there's not any you know, education, these people just come back every day withdraw a thousand bucks till the account's empty. It is interesting where you would put the controls, Like it's kind of similar to a bar where they're selling alcohol, which here in Las Vegas we have no limits on.

The bar owner is not responsible. In California, the bar owners responsible in this case. I don't think it's like the convenience store owner that's responsible. Maybe the person that owns and operates the ATM, maybe they're responsible, But someone somewhere has to be responsible. As soon as that happens, they have to reform the system or they'll go out of business. Right, So Bulbit has done a lot of bill work on this. According to Francis who've talked a few times about this, basically like they have like a sort of an algorithm that that flags when somebody is starting to when somebody is doing something that looks like in my vscam, I don't know exactly what it is, and then they sort of like basically try to inform the customer like, YO, watch out if they're making this promise or whatever. There's certain templates that these cameras use,

and apparently they've managed to save quite a few customers from basically falling for these scams. So, I mean, a big piece of it is education. And yeah, I mean I think the ATMs trying to counter the scams is probably the best. Like it's an easy yield solution for now. And I agree that's great that they're doing that, and I lawed that it's likely that that's going to be mandatory though, that there's going to be some kind of a if a customer withdraws this much, you have to put a message up. If they're doing this similar to kind of like cigarette advertising or alcohol advertising, we put a message up might make sick. I don't know if that helps. I mean, I think this is going to be, like you're saying, this is the fraud avenue, right, We're seeing normal people get scammed, which results in

letters to Congress and angry things and so forth, and whether we like it or not, these bit quinn ATMs are a key part of the scam. Well, it's it's the same approach as with the KYC thing, Right, You're trying to weaponize. You're trying to turn businesses into into surveillance apparatus and like nanny sort of state mechanisms. Right, Like you're trying to get businesses to do the enforcement, whereas the government that should be hunting down criminals. Right, Like, I don't know, you know, it's just incredible. It's incredible, like something's really not working. Agreed. And I would also just add that I think a lot of this fostering from politicians of acting like they really care about people. To me, it's more a matter of, well, sure they want to act like they so they can posture, But really this is about collecting data, trying to enforce

tax policy and go after people for dodging taxes. That's what I think most of this sort of stuff is about. That's what KYC is really about. That's what most likely what this you know, Arizona ATM thing is really about. But they'll put it under the guise of protection and like everything with government, it's all smoking mirrors and lawes. Previously, we've seen limits on your account put there for anti money laundering, i e. Anti drug cartels. Obviously none of us are in a drug cartel. It's pretty obvious, but we still are under the same you can't pull money out of your account type laws, which shocks a lot of people. And I would agree Robert, a lot of these controls, which I agree might slow down the scammer, would also slow down someone looking to transfer their life savings into bitcoin or other legitimate investment things

which people might have if they have more than ten K or five k or whatever. You're really limiting them. But at the same time, we're trying to protect or their government's trying to protect the poor people who have nothing and feeding their money endlessly into the machine. Let's go to Dan. E've just a little bit more on this before we move to the next issue. What do you think about Arizona. They're not going to have a bitcoin reserve at least now, and they've passed this ATM bill. They've also said no to crypto payments. Nobody talked about that. Yes, I think from from a Treasury perspective, when we when we GPTD it a few weeks ago, it seemed like not that a lot of the states actually use have their own treasury. I think Texas is one of the exceptions that had had goals specifically in

terms of holding other non non dollar assets. So I mean that wouldn't surprise me that Arizona would come down like that and with the protections. Like we said, it's very much for show, right, It's either for show saying you know, we care about you, which trying to protect you here, or because because people don't really take notice of these things like it. And I don't know how much research has been done, but it's like the I don't know if you have in the US, but in the UK we know we have pictures of like people's like lungs falling apart on cigarettes and that literally stops no one like no one. So I mean, I don't know what the stats are for it, but now they've actually in the UK we now have all tobacco hidden behind like a behind a barrier, like it's you can't

even you can't even see that the what tobacco products are on sale. They have to lift up a thing and then put it back down again enough do you ask for something? So it's all pretty strange in that respect, but it is for show, right he is saying, we care, we care about you. But I'm with one on that about the it's all about a data it's data mining is so that they can they can have more information so that they know who would you go after with tax in the UK. I think they're actually going further now think coinbased from twenty twenty six or any crypto exchange that deals with the UK actually has to submit information Director hmr C like the banks formerly do at the moment. So we're seeing that ramping up over over this side of the pond too. But we've

you know, we've had a friend that had a bitcoin eight m and there are horror stories. There was you know, he said there was multiple times when like a little old lady would come in or shaking and say that, you know, I've got to come to someone that I've got to go to the ATM a bitcoin EIGHTM and send this to this and that she's got like an instruction list that's been given to her and she's been you know, defrauded and he's had to you know, he's literally tried to convince and say, look, no, this is fraud, and Hays had to literally pull the plug off the machine, you know, because they won't believe them anyway, because they're like, I have to do this. So whether that's because she's been threatened in some way or something like that. So, I mean, yeah, measures are good

to prevent, to prevent fraud, and we know that in terms of crypto this we've seen some of the biggest hacks in history. So we know that there is a problem with hacking and fraud. But it's what steps actually actually work. And we don't need the ones that are just putting up a face, you know. We want steps that actually work and measures that actually work, not the ones that are just put there to look like they're working or to mind more data for tacks. Yeah, and I just in case I have to leave soon because it's I have a meeting at the turnaour. But I think if you take a step back further, this is sort of a symptom of the how aptimized our society has become. That that grandma would be walking with a bag of cash to an ATM to send bitcoin to

a scammer, and there's no family around her to guide her in, to sort of protect her, right, like, like what has happened? You know, where are her kids? Did she have kids? I don't know? Right, Like this is sort of the state of things where where you know. Basically, what I'm actually trying to say is like if you have family, if you have boomer parents, if you're the textavy person in your family, you know, we're going to suffer the consequences of them getting scammed anyway, so we might as well. We're gonna have to like really keep an eye on that. And you know, I don't think people it's very easy to sort of forget, you know. But like the older generation, they really are very tech literate, like they might have had like like for my parents, you know, they were they sort of got

into computers in the nineties a little bit, but today's technology is still alien to them in a way, right, And so of course grandma doesn't know the difference between like I don't know, going to the bank or using a banking app and using bitcoin at this point, they're both entirely technically illegible, ridiculous interfaces. And they grew up in an era where you shut up to the bank and people were nice to you, right, so you know, I think I think people kind of need to well, I mean, you know you're going to suffer the consequences anyway, right if your parents are or whoever you know, and your family takes takes a hit like that. All right, Well, one, I know you've got to go to your meeting. Thanks for being on the show. Do you want to do a story of the week or anything

going out? Go ahead? One, Yeah, thanks for having me. I mean the story of the week is coin based for sure. I think. I liked something positive. I posted an article on on Biger magazine about hash League. It's a Hackaton product that won the big plus plus hacket in Austin, and it's cool like you can sort of point your bid ax at a local mining pool in your city that you can boostrug with your friends, and you can compete between cities to like, you know, see who gets the most hash rate. There's a lot of cool technology on that front that's sort of being developed and might help decentralized mining on the bid axid of things as well. So yeah, that's that's a cool, fun story. You can find it a bigger magazine dot Comedic pe go all. Right, great, Thanks Jan for being on

the show. I enjoy meeting this topic. I agree with what Dan was saying. You could to skull and crossbones on there and people are still going to put their money in. I was going to tell the same story Dan said about our friend. You pretty much have to unplug the machine. And since I'm sure that the convenience stores get a cut of the money, they're not all going to have the morals and the ethics necessary to unplug the machine. And again, these scams are not old. They used to do them with cash. You do the same thing. The little old lady goes to the store, gets the cash, puts it in a box box FedEx is it to you, stuff like that. This all happened before even the taking over computer locking it down. They used to have those where you'd send the money to

an address. So this happened before bitcoin. It's just Bitcoin makes it so much easier because you could send the money over the network right You can just send it right there and it's gone. Check out World Crypto Network where we've got more shorts, and it looks like we've got shorts with Ben and Ben and Ben and one with Dan. So check out Worldcrypto neetwork dot com, go and subscribe on the YouTube. We've got shorts. Moving on to Lightning issues, We've just got some quick stories. We're going to go around the horn and get your guys reactions here. Bitcoin Magazine says just in fast food Giant Steak and Shake is now officially accepting Bitcoin Lightning Network payments. Dan Eve, how cool is that you can get steak in shake. That's cool that I like these stories. This is another classic like thing we've been yearning for,

right somewhere to spend bitcoin. And obviously you know, the narratives changed slightly. Is it's it used to be spend spend bitcoin. Now it's whole the bitcoin. But still it's nice to be able to use it in places and everyone I'm sure has a little Lightning wallet with a few few credits on there for many purchases, so for conferences and stuff like that. So I think this is a great, great idea. And also it's just it's getting the again, it's getting the logo out there, right. That's one of the reasons why we wanted businesses to be accepting bitcoin was because you wanted that, you wanted that Bitcoin logo in there next to MasterCard, next to Visa, next to Amex. There has been interesting confusion though, when they keep saying they're accepting bitcoin payments when they're really accepting Lightning, and I think we're having a lot of

brand confusion there, So that's going to continue. To be a problem. Robert, really quick, what do you think Steak and Shake Lightning payments? Well, I also heard, I believe that they are using beef tallow for their fries and some of their food now, so that's quite interesting. I'm a big fan of beef tallow. I don't like seed oils. So yeah, I've not been in the States for a while and I don't know when i'll be back, but the next time I'm in the United States, I will likely stop by Steak and Shake, And it would be fun to be able to pay with bitcoin. I mean, it is a bitcoin payment, it's over the Lightning network. Would I would still say it is a bitcoin payment, but yeah, I mean to that point, you know, I think we're gonna we're starting to get to this,

Like you know, Bitkid Phoenix. There's there's quite a few Wallas now that are making it pretty easy to kind of move between on chain and lightning. So hopefully, you know, for the people who do go and actually try to pay, there's not so much too much confusion, and I think it'll get better over time. But yeah, it's very cool and they've got I think I saw a map on the BTC map was, you know, basically saying, hey, we got work to do. Yeah, they think they've got thousands, at least hundreds, many hundreds of locations, if not maybe thousands in the United States. So it's great. It's a huge brand awareness thing and it's exciting. I will note I did see something about it being for the first million or first million customers. I'm not sure if it's a permanent program yet. It's being announced as

a permanent program, but I saw one announcement with a kind of limit on it, so let's double check that everyone. I do think it's great. As for the beef taler, it is interesting. McDonald's originally had that in their French fries. Got in a lot of trouble from vegetarians who thought that they were eating a vegetarian food, but you know, when they didn't know or whatever, that had beef down. But there's been a big change in that that they don't use that anymore, but let's keep it going. Jack Mahler's and his new company twenty one Capital and Tether bought four eight hundred and twelve bitcoin for four hundred and fifty eight million dollars. We also had a major buy from Meta Planet, the Japanese company, which bought one thousand, two hundred and forty one bitcoin for eighteen point four billion yen. Robert Allen, what do you

think about these large companies continuing to adopt the pirate at forty strategy of all hold your bitcoin for you with their treasuries and other things. I mean, obviously Sailor has shown that it can work quite well. I think it's his strategy is the best performing stock for a couple of years now. I believe a ton of sense. I mean, I definitely feel fomo. I feel you know, pain thinking about all those bitcoins that are likely not going to be on the market anytime soon. But yeah, it's it's good. I want to see more companies do it. I think makes a ton of sense. Sorry, I mean, if you're on a bitcoin standard, you should put your company on a bitcoin standard. Dan Eve, what do you think they're going to hold bitcoin on the balance sheets. Yeah, for especially for as Robert saying, for the

for the bitcoin based companies. You know, if you walk the walk, talk, if you talk the talk, walk the walk, right. But it seems a bit strange when you see some random like game studio that suddenly buys up or like you know, but they're trying to perhaps pump their stock price a little bit. But it's just a sensible thing to do to headge your bets. Considering it's the it's the new hard money. It does seem like we are switching into this this this you know, we've gone from I C O s and stuff to to ship call and now people going, well, just buy my company, which is buying bitcoin. And the real message should just be by bitcoin and hold bitcoin, right because because now we've also got this risk that we're seeing from such a big company coinbase, you know, this this hackful

coinbase. So it's another another lesson that you should hold your own, hold your own cryptocurrency. But then you've got the flip side of that, right, which is the these kidnappings that happen because if you don't hold your own crypto, no one can steal it from you, and if you're on in exchange, it's a lot harder to get it out right. There's more more hoops to jump through. So man, it's really becoming a confusing environment to be in. Well, I do think it's better off a company than a state because a company is trying to maximize profits, so I support them holding bitcoin, whereas a state is trying, Like I said, more programs, less programs, programs you like, programs you don't like. I do fear again that we're going down the Ice nine Infinite Jest nightmare scenario, where why even bother making things if you can

just hold bitcoin. I don't know what these companies do, but my theoretically understanding, because of Bitcoin going up in the past and going up in the future, is that there's no reason to make these widgets. Everyone that you have working for you for widgets all fired. Don't make any more widgets, don't make any more games. In Infinite Jest, you talked about a movie that was so addictive that once you started watching the movie, you would stop eating, you would stop showering, you'd stop caring for yourself, you would just keep watching the movie. And I think that we found the business version of Infinant jests the Befit Business addictive movie, where once they start thinking about these bitcoin profits, why even have a secretary? Like every single expense of your business, including your CEO Michael Saylor, is a waste. You should take. All that money and

put it in a bitcoin, every single physical location, everything, But I would say the accountant at the end of the day and the security person or team managing the bitcoin is pointless. And it's kind of scary to see that keep coming up. Robert, I can see you over there. What do you think about my theory of addictive movie business? That was like a fun book, you know, I mean, I think bitcoin as it is monetized is going to be hard to compete with. When you compare it to just about any investment, it's going to outcompete. But you know that that s curve is going to flatten eventually, maybe when it's many, many millions of dollars. But you know, in other words, there's I forget who wrote the article, but you know this is basically the speculative attack on bitcoin. Where you borrow money and you

you know, at a cheap financing rate, you buy bitcoin. You figure out a way to pay that money back. You just keep doing it, and you are using the you're basically destroying the fiat system with its own mechanism because it cannot, you know, it cannot sustain itself against bitcoin. Bitcoin is going to just suck all the monetary value to itself. Once that's completed, though, which you know, maybe ten twenty thirty years from now, then I think this theory would wouldn't work anymore, you know what I mean. So it's sort of like it's a black hole that's got so much matter that it can pull into itself to use a metaphor. And then once that's accomplished, once that's completed, then you would have to start being productive again in terms of actually doing something. So that would be my take. I think it's ultimately a good

thing, you know, and honestly, the faster it happens probably the better because within reason. But you know, the sooner we drain, we drain the fiat system of its power, the sooner we can live on a bitcoin standard, which is better for the entire place in it. I do see the addictive cycle out there forming that they must buy because of the profits. Every time they buy, they get less bitcoin, so they must buy because of the profits, and it just burns and burns and burns. I don't know when it's going to stop. I don't know if people are really going to stop producing things like infinite jest. Our eyes will just glaze over. Everyone will watch the bitcoin ticker all day instead of doing work. And of course the vonticat book Cat's Cradle where AI did all the work. Anyway, so we're coming to head

of a lot of sci fi books, a lot happening. We've still got a few more quick stories. Robin Hood Woo's Canadio Canadian crypto users with nearly one hundred and eighty million dollars wonder five purchase. Of course, obviously, given the last topic, they could have just bought bitcoin instead. Meta with Facebook, WhatsApp and Instagram, according to CNBC, is planning to enable crypto's stable coin payments for their three point five three point three five billion users, Massive for adoption, and finally, the black Rock Company has met with the SEC Crypto Task Force to discuss staking options, tokenization, and ETF approval standards. It's all happening in crypto, Dan Eve, what do you think, Robin Hood Meta adding stable coin payments or a black Rock meeting with the task force. Oh, on the I think on the on the Meta adding stable coin payments, I mean it seems like

a relatively smart move, and they have been been dabbling obviously bitcoin would be better. They've been dabbling in the crypto space for Walt so in terms of thinking about it since they had that stab at Libra. But what what was good was was how the show that covered it was at MSNBC, but how they acknowledged the fact that, you know, Libra was a centralized coin, and I think the quote even with something like why you know it centralized? Why even bother? Why not? Why not just hold bitcoin? So at least you're seeing the mainstream news companies now acknowledging the fact that that bitcoin is is the one right, It's you know, it's good. It's kind of a step forward that they're digitizing in some way using stable coins. But ultimately, you know, bitcoin, Bitcoin is king, and you can understand though that maybe not with

Meta specifically, but why some smaller companies want to hold back a little on Bitcoin because of the risk involved. But you know, Meta is a huge company. They can they can take a few risks here and there and and imagine if they had done I mean, look at look at the winkle Vi trains, right, you know they when they when they forked from Facebook as it were, and now they're, you know, some of the biggest holders of bitcoin on Earth. So they should have taken a leaf out of the They should have stolen you know, return the favor and stolen another little winkle By idea. I don't know, I don't know how who actually was the who's wronging all that, but they should have a big one basically mesa Facebook. Whoever, Robert Allen, what do you think Robin hood is buying a Canadian company? In

the SEC's meeting with Blackrock. I don't know if I have a lot to say about those I do like them. About a Facebook piece, Yeah, I guess. I guess what I kind of think if I were to predict the next five ten years, I think, if if, if this happens and maybe a few other companies move in this direction with stable points in particular, I'm guessing it's going to be the dollar, then I think we I think we're going to see a lot of you know, kind of second tier by Thomas. We're going to see a lot of you know, other fiat currencies basically collapse more quickly because uh, you know, for example, I'm in I'm in Nigeria right now and the Nira is a mess. I mean they've lost I think two years ago it was two years ago it was about five hundred

to one dollar and today today it's sixteen twenty to one. I think I saw. So basically, the stable coin move is going to first, I think, pull a lot of the fiat value to the dollar, and then but my further prediction would be that the dollar will then be sucked into bitcoin in terms of the value of the dollar ultimately collapsing as well. So this might prop up the dollar for a few more years. That's basically what I'm trying to say. Sounds like the US government is again tapping into Facebook as one of their agencies, which it clearly is. You also have to like that it's stable coins. Many people will hold it thinking that they're going to get rich and then and it won't go up or down, and they'll be all confused. And I thought I had bitcoin. Robal Robbel, I'll talk a

little bit about the ones no one talked about. I think it's always fun to kick on and make fun of Robin Hood. They were big during the game Stop debacle. They stopped people from buying and selling game Stop stock, and they also were critical of crypto, sleeping on it forever. It's funny to see them now trying to get it back by buying this Canadian company. Of course, I wonder, as everyone does. Here we just talked about the bitcoin treasury issue. Will Robinhood make more from buying the Canadian company than from holding bitcoin. I think it's going to be hard to top the bitcoin earnings. It's going to be hard for them to justify this purchase in the future. As for Black Rocket's just more good news for bitcoin kind of major finance companies are now meeting with the SEC, which is progress. Maybe they move

things forward, but also not progress because we all know they want to move things forward so they have a monopoly so they can get all the fees that standard business practice. We're running a little out of time, but I want to go to the bitcoin predictor ball. But you guys to tell me will the price of bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Dan Eve, Oh, yeah, olds on high. Robert Allen, higher. Or lower always higher. I like higher too. It's always my pick. Sometimes I'm wrong though. Checking out the ball will the price of bitcoin be higher at this time next week? And it says most Yeah, I'm going to go with most most likely. The ball is positive most likely. We've got a couple more stories here. Checking in with another company planning to hold tons of bitcoin. David Bailey and

holding company Knack a Mooto raises seven hundred and ten million dollars and announces a merger with Kindly MD to establish a bitcoin treasury. He also went on CNBC and claimed that his company will sell their bitcoin if the stock trades at a discount, they will buy more bitcoin if the stock trades the other direction. This could be a dangerous strategy. We'll go through this and then we'll go to one more story really quick, Dan Eve, what do you think David Bailey? And mainly, the strategy for one of these large bitcoin holding companies doesn't have to be his. One could be anyone buying and selling the bitcoin rather than just holding. What do you think, Dan? Did I read this way? Save A Bailey like the new crypto advisor for the US is that someone else? They have said he's a Trump crypto advisor. Just generally

he does run for full disclosure, he runs. He bought Bitcoin magazine from other people. He runs the Bitcoin Conference, which is a major conference. He was in many ways responsible invited Trump to speak at the conference, support ordered him, and so forth, probably hooked him up with donors and things. So he's they call him a crypto advisor. I don't know that he has an official position with the Trump administration. Right, didn't I read that he also had to sell his He sold his crypto off because of conflict of interest. But then if he if he took a position, that could be. But I don't personally know of a position that he had. Okay, maybe I misread that because it kind of seems like if he if he did, and now he's creating a company that holds bitcoin, there's that kind of his side. Is it

side scutting that conflict of interest? Maybe? But you know, I mean, like I said earlier, it seems like we've gone gone to this. The new ic o craze really is for for people to be setting up a bitcoin company that just buys bitcoin and doesn't do much else. If they're dumping it, then then obviously that's that's not going to be good for the markets. But it seems like even when they're buying now these institutions, they're not going to be buying from the order book, right, They're buying off of OTC. So it's not it's not having these big buys and cells that we're hearing about on having as big a swing as they would usually if you just got to go on to the exchange and buy a bunch in chunks. So you know, it's good that there's more awareness out there, but again, it just

seems like you know, hot, buy the bitcoin yourself and hot and hold it lesson. I do think it's strange. It kind of reminds me of coin Base, how we talked about them not having faith in bitcoin. And I know from working at bitcoin startups back in the day, many people that worked at those companies did not have faith in bitcoin. They would get their salary, they would sell it immediately, they would not take it and buy bitcoin like maybe you or I would. And I think that's interesting that this lack of bitcoin DNA gets into these companies, then they make terrible decisions and then they have to change them with this. Even though Bitcoin Magazine is a recent purchase. I would have thought that the original Bitcoin Magazine would have had a bitcoin reserve, and maybe the new Bitcoin Magazine could have a bitcoin reserve

to preserve the ability to make their message, the ability to run the magazine, stuff like that, keeping the web page online, something there, and maybe they could build it out of there. I think, because we don't see that, we can assume Bitcoin Magazine didn't have a bitcoin reserve now or after the takeover. They might not have believed. In it in the same way that maybe World Crypto Network did and so forth. Robert Allen, what do you think about it? Sorry, just quickly, Dusty Grays you know, corrected me. Sorry that it wasn't David Bailey, it was David Sachs, So I got that wrong. David Sachs was the the advise of that to set his scriptop. So there you go. And David Sachs was from the PayPal mafia, longtime pay paler, probably doing very well. I don't cry for his portfolio. Robert, what do you think about

Bitcoin Magazine likely not having reserve and this new Knackomotos company having nothing to do with press or freedom or anything, just kind of making money, like all the other bitcoin holding companies we see these days. Well, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. If I, if I understand what you read correctly, if the value of the company drops below the value of their bitcoin holdings, they will sell bitcoin. So what would be the purpose of that? Is that too, they're. Gonna yeah, they're gonna yep, So they will sell the bitcoin, buy the shares, and then presumably when the bitcoin goes back up, they'd sell the shares and buy the bitcoin. So they're they're balancing it back and forth, which to the layman sounds okay in a fair market. But as Adam Back pointed out in the Twitter comments to this, it's not a

fair market. If somebody knows that you're holding and it has to stay above five hundred, they might just use all of their money to make it go to four ninety, to make you lose. They might knock you out of your position, they might move the market faster than you can recover. There's a lot of things I think that you know, savvy market players could do against this company with their strange stated advice. So I do think it stands out, Robert, what do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I need to think about it more and kind of walk through the thinking. And it's just new to me at the first I've heard of it today. But yeah, I mean it sounds a bit dangerous. Yeah, as you said, maybe op it would open them up to some sorts of manipulation. But anyway, it's an interesting it's

a fresh take. I'll give them that. It is. And it's kind of a surprise. The other ones were just going with the Sailor or Mahler's now strategy of buy and hold. It seems a lot more complicated to go with this buy and sell sometimes buy, some other times, back and forth. Maybe they're quick, maybe they're fast, maybe they have fast transactions, they're smarter, they've thought of all these things. I'm just not sure. And we do have one more story, unfortunately, we have to get political. According to the New York Times, a three hundred million dollar purchase of the Trump crypto coin from a small Chinese company that no one has ever heard of before. This company, they say China, but as actually this company is buying the crypto scam to gain influence, corruption, plain and simple. We talked about this before, how a trucking company

was going to forego the traditional lobbying to instead buy the Trump coin and then tell him that they bought the coin and then request the markets to Mexico be reopened. We've talked about this theoretically as something that could happen with a presidential or celebrity or other type coin, but now we see it actually happening in real time, Dan Eve, what do you think? I mean, obviously it's legal. If the president does it, it's legal. They've kind of cleared the way for these meme coins in the new administration. But it sure does look pretty bad good Dan. Well, I mean like it's those meme coins really did kill that meme coin marketings. In a way, You've got a kind of thank them because there was some stuff going on with pump dot fun But now it seems like, you know, that's with the with that couple

with the four hundred million dollar like jet gift. Yeah, it does seem like there's a bit of funniness is going on. But obviously, you know it, I don't know how they bought it. Does it say how? Does it say how they didn't just like market by right, did or did they did do it? Did they do an OTC deal? With Trump does it detail that. It doesn't seem clear if it's a market buyer or not, but it does if you own eighty percent of the currency, anyone buying it is kind of like a donation to you. So it certainly does support their currency. Or maybe they're using it because isn't there some sort of like trump Coin party, so that if you have over a certain amount did I read that you have a certain amount of it? Did have a competition recently the largest

holder of the coin would receive dinner with the president, which it seems again directly a quid pro quote this for that which previously was a lead under many bribery type laws. It's unclear what's going to happen in the future. It's a new America. It is exciting. You can buy anything you want. Robert Allen, what do you think they donated to the Trump coin perhaps purchasing him directly. Well, I guess if you're gonna have corruption, if you can at least see it, maybe it's a little better instead of it like under the table, you know, corruption on chain exactly on chain corruption at least, Yeah, it's clear who's doing it or you know, I don't know yeah. I mean, it's a brave new world we're living in here. It is hard to square with the talk of the Biden crime family, who obviously took so much

less when compared to this three hundred million, the airplane at four hundred million, the Jared Kushner company at two billion dollars in investment from Saudi and UAE, et cetera, so much greater numbers, so much it's less upset. It's very strange. Yes, well, I mean to be fair, you know, like this is out in the open though, that that's my point, right, I mean. But if I'm robbing you in the street, like, I'm still robbing you. If I'm robbing you at home, I'm robbing you in the street, I'm still robbing you, like come on, man. Yeah, but I mean, yeah, I'd rather be open. That's all I'm saying. I'll give it to Trump for at least you know it's it's it's there's no question. Yeah, I don't say that it's still a crime. Just say you like them for other things, but you wish you wouldn't

commit crimes. You wish you wouldn't admit open bribes like like the numbers keep getting bigger. Is it a crime? Is four hundred two billion? Like? How where's the number where you're like, I think you took too much? Like that that last one the airplane. So you're saying, you're saying that you can't you can't take a gift. What's about how do you distinguish say I'm saying you absolutely can't take a gift. It's called the Emolument's clause. You cannot take a gift. Giant flying twenty thirty years, Like senators can't take a piece of pizza. Workers, workers can't take a free lunch, like you can't take a gift. I got yes, except they. All except they all do so I mean. That's not good that they all do. Like it's clearly not. A law though, like no one actually does. For you to be intellectual, honest, you just

have to say, I wish you wouldn't do this. This one's not so. Good it is it? Or is it company? Actually? Yeah, like all the other laws, they don't fall. Look, I just don't get stressed about it. I expect politicians are going to be crooked and corrupt, you know, I don't know, I don't It doesn't like I'm not saying I think it's great. I guess I just I don't think that much about it. Animal we can't. It doesn't surprise me. We can't just say we expect everyone to steal, so we're not going to have laws against stealing. It's just not how it works. But here's here's a plane is not stealing from me. I mean, it's federal office folders from accepting gifts and monuments, offices, or titles from foreign states without the consent of Congress. So what this says in plane English, he can have

the plane if Congress says it's okay, all right, So that's all he has to do is say to Congress four hundred million dollar airplane, which again, if it was a donation to the United States of America, we would keep it and the next president, perhaps Vice President JD. Vance would fly around in the airplane. Cool, right, That's not what they worked out with the airplane. I didn't want to talk about the airplane, but no, no, they worked out where it goes to the Trump Library, where he could perhaps continue flying it, which changes it from a gift to the United States to a gift to Donald Trump personally, which is really, really, really really a violation of this, like prohibiting all gifts is not about size or that you really need an airplane or so forth, like which I don't want to talk about this,

but with the other thing in the crypto, like it's not better if it's in the public like the crime like it's still a crime, Like it's still a crime robber, Like, it's not better. It's not like it's not like a sneaky new kind of crime to like, it's just that there's so many crimes out there that can't seem to stop them. There doesn't like there seems to be no law, which is a bigger problem. What do you get impeached for that? How does that? How does that if it is? How does that work? Is that? Is that an impeachment thing? Is absolutely yeah, will be an impeachable offense? How they not doing it? Because you're the. Well, right now, the Republicans hold both houses of Congress, and they've decided not to uphold impeachable offenses and also not to protect the power of the purse, which

is a larger issue where Congress says, Okay, we're going to spend ten billion dollars on this program, and again you disagree with the program. You agree with the program. That's separate. Congress said spend the money. What's happened recently is that the executive branch, the president, has come in and said the money won't be spent. And that's not their position in the government. The position is Congress spends the money. Now the Republicans have decided not to get upset about this, which is very interesting and completely unexpected. Through all of political history. The founding fathers assumed that the congressmen would stand up for their power. Right they made that program. That program goes to their district. Like it or don't like it. It's for this, it's for that. Whatever Congress made the program. It could be to buy missiles, could be to buy school lunches. You disagree

with it, you agree with it. They spent the money. The money's supposed to be spent. He doesn't have the power to stop that money. He has done that. So I don't know what's going to happen in the future. But this this thing, yeahs the gift, and it would be better if it was a gift to the United States. Any even that that goes not. To say anything about how they're going to have to take the airplane apart to search for bugs and for sabotage and for other things. And then there's also this other thing where I hate to be you know, Johnny military logic who read the Tom Clancy books. But one of the things the Air Force one does is that we have two of them, which is an obvious decoy. We can put one here and one there and you don't know where

the president is and in a crisis, that could be very valuable. Right, So we're gonna need two of these goofy flying palace plants, uh, if we want to be in any way protective of the chief, whoever he is. So yeah, it's a big mess. The buying him with. The NFTs is not good either, and yeah it doesn't help. It's in public like it just no. But let's let's finish up here. Let's move on to predictions or story of the week. Dan Eve, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead? Oh. My story, Leek was was that I went to the pow Wow ten year meetup on Wednesday, which is really cool. So it's the ten year anniversary of the Bitcoin group and which is just a little bigcoin on Signal, wasn't Signal, wasn't WhatsApp. I think it was on something

else before, like, but yeah, it's it's cool. So I did it, did it, performed for the first time, performed My My Wrap, the new one, which went horrifically wrong because I still and in the lyrics to and I pulled up the wrong edit of lyrics and was a complete right. But people said it went okay, so I'm happy with that. And then I got invited to sing, entertain, not a singer, or entertain a bitcoin festival in Hemo Hempstead on the four fifteenth of June. But I don't think I can't make it. It's my son's birthday. But if you can, there is a bitcoin festival in hemil Hempstead on the fifteenth of June, so check it out if you're in London. That's very cool. Dan shout out. Shout out to the pow Wow groups connecting bitcoiners for ten years. That's excellent. I always tell people about

how I go to the conference and our friend adds us to the pow Wow group and then I know where all the meetups are and meetings at the bar and what time the events are and stuff. Like that, So it's great to have that connection for people. In ten years is a long time to be connecting people, so that's really great. A shout out to our friend who runs the Powwow groups. Let's go to Robert Allen a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Oh well, I'm going to the bitcoin the Afro Bitcoin Conference in Mauritius in December, so if anyone wants to come hang out. Looks like a nice place. I've never been, so that's my story. And also I just got word that I'm going to be flying on Trump's new plane, so I'll be sure to set a couple of

photos. For real. Man, are you going to fly on the plane? I'm curious things have happened? Man, I don't want anything. Can you get me? Can you get me? Don't man? A picture of the toilet? I don't know? But that's awesome. And what about the Africa conference? What size do you expect it to be? Have you been before any information about it? Certainly does have a right wing speaking group like our conference in Vegas. Uh? Yeah, I don't know, honestly too much. I didn't make it last year. I was considering going, but I couldn't make it, So I think it's on the smaller side. I would guess maybe a few hundred people max would be my expectation. It might even be as small as one hundred, but yeah, I think it'll be interesting. You know, I'm living in Nigeria now and I'm reviving my CoInc

brand to basically try to offer brokerage services to Nigerians. So there's what I've found living in Africa is there are a lot of crypto people. Well, I guess this is true everywhere really, but a lot of people who use you know, are just into quote crypto. A lot of them just day trade and lose their money and scams. And then you have the older generation here who, like in the United States, you know, they have most of the money, but they're older and less tech savvy and afraid and uncertain and da da da da. So my hope is to you know, onboard the kind of grayer part of the population helped them to protect some of their money from the very high inflation. I was saying, I think when you were off the earlier, you know, like two years ago, the nira was about five

hundred to one dollars. Today it's sixteen twenty to one. So I mean, that's it just it's it's devastating inflation here, and so yeah, the people here need bitcoin. So that's what I'm working on now and amongst other few of the little things. But gonna go try to meet more bitcoiners and enjoy myself, you know, in a nice, sunny, beachy place for the holidays. So well, that sounds fantastic. Robert and we all know Andrew used to talk all the time about the developing companies being the ones that actually needed bitcoin here in the United States. You know, we had a lot of inflation, for sure, but not five hundred percent to sixteen twenty like losing two thirds of your money or losing a third of it. Huge deal, huge deal. And especially remember you worked for that money, you saved it, you did the right thing,

and then you get hit by this invisible tax that takes all your funds. And you know, sure bitcoin goes up and down. But theoretically, over five years, they would be better served holding, you know, some of their savings in bitcoin, and hopefully we're giving them the information and the access to make their own decisions on this. And Andreas always talked about I always lauded him for it. I always thought it was great. Yeah, and we miss him. We miss him today he's not I look around at all the new crypto bitcoin people and I don't see Andreas. And I don't see a copy of Andreas. And I don't see someone just kind of carrying his flag. And even with I know he has an organization and he has people that work for him and stuff, I just don't see it. I don't see him out

there. I don't see them out there. I don't see the Antonapolis Foundation or whatever it may be. I hear a lot from Vitalic and from these business people, and from Jack Maler's who used to watch mad bitcoins, and many other people, but I don't hear from old Andreas. So is Andreas You think he's like semi retired now or what? What's your take? He hasn't tweeted since December, and then before that was April last year, so he's he seems maybe when he got that bitcoin, so maybe he kindly for he finally fort shit, I'm rich get up now right. I look at his Twitter. It seems like there's a lot of activity and he's having like meetups and stuff. But it seems very like kind of corporate and polished, and I imagine that's what they want, but it's very different than like a one man direct

thing. And I don't know. I do think he had a lot of what we're seeing and what the first issue, going back to the beginning of the show, the potential problems with coinbase, I think Andreas had all those problems. Early people thought he was incredibly well off. I don't think he was. Other people are stalkers or bad people or chasing him or whatever, or being strange to him in person and stuff. So I think he had a lot of that and probably freaked him out. He probably moved along. But I wish there were books. I wish there were. I don't know. He has the books of his speeches and stuff. And he's obviously done a lot and you can't you have to do more or whatever. But maybe I wish for more. I wish for more. Maybe he's a great guy. After working on mass

during Bitcoin and mastering Ethereum, he's working on his latest book, Mastering Corruption on Chaine. Yeah, I listened to and I mean he's one of the reasons I got into bitcoin. You know, he was one of the first people that really pulled me in, along with reading the white paper and some other things and watching your show as well, Thomas, you were the first, I think kind of bitcoin commentary show that I that I got into. So amazing to be on it all these years later. Who would have thought, yeah, that's very cool. We had Andreas on some of our early shows and he's always really great to us and he's a great guy. And Trace another one is an old schooler, you know. He was the first. It was what mad bitcoins and Trace May has run to go a podcast. They got me into

a bitcoin and Trace has disappeared too now. Right well, we don't know. Back going back, he was listed as a speaker at the New Bitcoin conference in Las Vegas. Like we mentioned, were kind of a kind of a right wing bitcoin conference at this point, with the vice president speaking, the president's two sons speaking, the president's crypto advisor speaking, several businessmen such as Michael Saylor and you mentioned before, Senator Crypto Senator Cynthia mus will be speaking, and the loan cipherpunk, if you can call him that is Jack Maler's with his hoodie but comes from a prestigious banking family, not fault, but that is a fact. At the end of the month. I think it's the twenty seventh through twenty ninth. Let's you've all try to pull it up here. I am going to be going. I don't think they know about it, but I did

receive a free ticket from a friend, and I live near Vegas, so I can go check it out. Here's the conference. As I said, not my position. That it's you're going to be in your element there is. It is certainly a strange place to be. I'm a polite, nice dude though. And now wait a minute, to be fair. To be fair, you left out Ross. Oh yeah, that's right. Right, I forgot Rosses is pretty o G. Cross's No. It's interesting though, because you see Ross or at least you know they might have photoshopped this, but he's dressed in a very sharp business suit. Everyone else except for mister Maler's. We also have David Bailey. Uh. I mean, I'm sure you're a cool. Dude, but he kind of put himself on the left on the front of his page. So that's the guy that runs Bitcoin

magazine and runs the conference. So but you know that's cool. He's using his brand to market himself. Like, amen, why not? I agree with you, Robert, I agree. I would do the same if if this was me, it would be mad bit. Quinn's next to you know, I don't know aoc or we'd have but uh no, that's the conference and they say they're having Trace, which I'm excited about. So I also have Adam back friend of the show, Jack Maller's friend of the show. If you go view all, it's got the same guys. But then down here past. Brian Johnson, Wait a minute, that's not real. Yeah, Peter Schiff, bitcoin hater, Dan said Brian Johnson, the guy that wants to live forever. I'm not sure what he has to do with bitcoin. Jan moorehead from Pantera who hates me. Don Trump Junior, that's funny. He

doesn't even have any qualifications, no offense meant but it's his blank here. And then finally Trace Mayor. It says, oh, I don't like this. It says Urim Capital you r I am you Rim? That is that is a tough tough name for a company. I like Trace. I don't want to be mean to his company, but You'reim and also sounds like you're in. Well you know, you know, that's actually I believe that's a biblical reference. So the priests and the Old Testament they would have and I think it's yes, right, and they would use these things to divine the will of God. So kind of a question about what they actually were. I think it's a little bit uncertain, but that's a really truly difference. Robert. I never heard that reference, So that's fascinating. Trace. Of course, historically it's a you know, a religious Mormon

person by his choice and so forth. Not a secret, I don't think. But very cool to see Trace. I hope to see him at the convention. Also, just again so strange that the Bedfellas, like you said, the you know, Eric Trump is on here to the right of Trace. We have Hester Pierce, the commissioner from the SEC. So remember when Trace was like a rebel and we were all rebel bitcoiners, and yeah, now we're hanging out with the commissioners from the SEC. She supports crypto for the record, but it is interesting. And then we have that strange thing that we saw the other day. If you're in crypto and you make speeches, change your name to Aaron because they sorted it alphabetical by first name. So if you go down here to do we get to see for Chris, if your name was Dan, you're

left. Off the list. Robert, I'm sorry, you're way lower, way off. And they don't even have a button for like a few additional speakers. It just cuts off at c really interesting choices. I can always put my name as as Aaron. I mean, why not I think I identify as an Aaron. A Robert, like, just change the name to a Robert because like all these other people, hey, hey, I just read it off the screen man like they could have they could have work shopped it. Thomas, I have a have a challenge for you because you're you're railing against the right wing conference, and that's fine. When are you going to come up with the left wing bitcoin conference in the United States? Right? You should lead it? Yeah, or you know, get some friends. I mean I would I would even. Call mean actually,

I mean, you know I support that cause and stuff, and there is a progressive bitcoin or YouTube channel and they do intergroup progressive things and try to talk about But the main thing I would say is I wouldn't want even though I could run it and stuff would be fun I wouldn't really want a left wing bitcoin conference. What I want is that center bitcoin conference where they get the left and the right and they balance it out and get both sides, because I really think that crypto is good for right, crypto is good for left, depending on what you want to focus on. And in general, and I've said for a long time, I think that bitcoin just changes everything. So if you like disaster relief after a disaster and you donate, you know, Bruce Springsteen sings on TV or whatever, that's the only

money that's going to be raised in the future because the government won't be able to print the money. So that's that's a problem for disasters relief. Other people might say for war buying weapons. The government can't print money, they can't buy weapons, they can't stockpile them, although we're seeing many workarounds for that. But in general, I think that it's better to have Bitcoin changes everything like the Internet did, and it's happening and we need to react with it. We can't try to put it back in the box. We can't say it's not happening. And again, I think we get that with both sides of the aisle, and we've drifted over. I mean, any anybody can look at this this lineup and see it's very right wing. But I fear that's going to cost us in the future. Even if I was right wing, I would

say, well, we've we've got all those people, but how are we going to get those left wing people? And they've just done this? But so I hear you, But here's what I'm saying, Like, Okay, so you're gonna have a hard time right now given the divisiveness of kind of how the world is right now. You know you're gonna have a hard time getting all those people in a room initially. But if you could get the left wing people in a room, build some momentum, right and then eventually you could put them all together. That's what I think, you know, might actually work, because bitcoin can you nine people. But I I hate to say it, but I don't see a lot of bitcoiners on the left, And I think I would argue it's because I think it's basically antithetical in some ways to their core

beliefs. Now, granted you're here, uh and and you're pretty leftist, and you know you've you've stayed that course and been a bitcoinner, so it can be possible. I think it's to be, you know, trying to be gracious, but I think it's a little bit of a cognitive dissonance. But you know, each of. The core of some of the big coin principles of you know, banking the unbanked and taking the power away from the well, that's truly. That's all left wing hippie stuff, that's true. Yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, you're right. If you go far enough back in the left wing, there's some of that stuff that makes sense. I think I've just been so jaded by the modern corporate left wing that has just become corporate drone, you know, do what we're told kind of thing that it's hard for me to remember. But yeah,

you're right, I think if you go far enough back, you know kind of. I also think it's just it's just important for everyone to say, like with the Internet, the world has changed. Like if you were running a newspaper business and I said, oh, we have the Internet, and you said, oh, we're going to just ignore that, that'd be a problem. In the same way, you know, you run a financial business. I have the bitcoin. You know, you're left your right or whatever your financial business needs to look into the bitcoin needs to understand it. And I think that for you know, for all people left and right and the same like I'm saying for government, like if it changes how we raise money, it changes how we fund things. And I think there's going to be unfortunately workarounds our initial idea of government having

no money for weapons. They'll they'll rehypothecate some bitcoin, They'll like spin up some fake bitcoin, they'll do some kind of leveraged thing whatever with their finance magic, and they'll get the money and they'll get the weapons. It does help us in other ways, and I think again it's this transformational thing where it's not left or right. It's like the lightning bolt has come down. The world is now different. And I'm not ignoring it as a left wing person or I'm not trying to put back in the box like from past of technology. I know that's foolish, but I do think if we looked ahead and we had laws to try to soften the landings of people things like this top and bottle things. We're all gonna be bitcoiners eventually because adam necessity. I think that's essentially what what what's the the end results here of

both of us. Yeah, but we'll see how this conference goes. I'll be there. I'll try, I'll try, and I'm gonna try. I don't know if I should try to do interviews and stuff or not, but I'll hang out and i'll see what happens. Are you on Are you on Noster? By the way, Sure you are? Okay? I need to find you on there because I basically deleted Twitter. I'm just tired of it. So it's too it's too distracting and it takes up too much of my attention. But i'd love to you know, if you post on there, especially at the conference, would be fun to follow along, So I'll we'll just make sure you make sure I have your you know I can follow you, give me your end. I haven't been posting too much on Noster. I don't seem to get much of a

response. I don't have much following in another way, though, Twitter, and I won't just signal them out. Facebook and YouTube as well. Even if you have a following, you can't get a response anymore. They've changed the systems to where we tried really hard. We earned fifty thousand or so subscribers on each of those platforms, i'd say, and you know each one of them YouTube, you want to get them to the people. They won't do notifications unless you watch it every week, and they're not going to watch every week. They're not going to click on every notification. That's unreasonable, but that's the way their system works because they're trying to deliver you addictive, high quality content. The same Facebook won't send it to all our friends unless we pay them, and Twitter in the same way, you have to pay them to get it even sent

in the quality of being sent, so noster I can send all I want, but no one replies. So it's different problems from different networks, But in general, as a creative content type person, I do feel we've kind of lost the on ramp. There's not where you try really hardly. You guys did with your cartoons, and you know you've got a lot of views and maybe not perfect or whatever, but you got a lot of attention and you built that out in nothing, and you didn't have to bribe Facebook and Twitter to get in. Even if you paid the bribes, I'm not sure that you could get that attention that you used to be able to get when you viral things that they've kind of muted that. And it doesn't surprise me. We've seen this with other technologies, but it does kind of it horrifies me

personally because I've put time into trying to get these subscribers so I could take the content the subscribers have subscribed trying to get the content, like we're all together, and the company is like, you have to pay us and bribe us, and I don't have the money, and I don't think it's ethical either to try to bribe them or so forth. And the Twitter thing is the same kind of thing. To get you get messages in there, you have to be verified, I think, is what it's become. Yeah, I mean, so what I would say about noster is what I like about it is that there's no algorithm really. I mean, there depends on the app. You can you know, you can get like trending and some things like that, but generally speaking, you know you're going to get the people you follow, you're going

to see them in your feed. And then what I'm finding is it's just becoming more of like a truly like what a social network used to be, which is like, these are some people that I think I have common interest and I want to hear what they have to say, and I want to be involved in some of these conversations. And so as I've been just enjoying those conversations and chiming in here and there. You know, I'm building some natural friendships with people, and so it feels much less like a transactional thing and more organic, and it's it's taking, you know, engagement. It's not like I can just post and go off and just do whatever I want like I need to. You know, you kind of have to work at it, just like you know in meet space you have to work a friendships.

But the point being, I feel like, you know, you're not like these these frustrations you have around Facebook and so on. I don't see that because the algorithms basically aren't there, and so it's much more of like just old school. What you see is what you get, and who you follow is who you're going to hear from. So yeah, I'm enjoying it. It's much less noisy and much less and much more peaceful. So yeah, come post more. I'll you know, if I'm following you and I see a post, I will definitely engage. You've got one engager. I'll give you a try. And it's funny because I agree with what you're saying about not having the algorithm, but I also see the other side where that algorithm is the one that's going to deliver me the. Related video where I like Matt. Bitcoin, so I get

the crypto rapt rap that comes in as well. And that kind of like suggestion thing can be good, can bring you good content. I think it can also bring you more negative content, can bring you more politically content you agree with. We can have negative algorithmic things. But ost I want to go ahead and pimp Ben's website as well. Ben is one of the creators of Noster Friend Ben Ark. He's got Noster dot com. You can check out Noster at noster dot com. You can buy kind of like a noster dot com alias, so you could be like John at noster dot com and they just put up a system now where you can auction these aliases and you can buy a Noster dot com identify her. So that'd be cool to help Ben out and help out other projects and stuff, and yeah, we're

big fans of Oster, but yeah, it's just hard to leverage it as a as a creator and especially hard to leave other platforms where you have like fifty k subs and stuff, even if it's not successful. In your mind, you still think you have fifty k subs and maybe if I just hit the right post it would hit them. But I've done. Hundreds of posts over the years and it's not hitting them. The wall is real. You have to pay so on. But I don't know dan more on this before we close out. I think that it seems that before you feed it's like changed so much. I don't know when they split for you and then the actual for you from your followers. So there's probably only about like five percent of less than that of the posts from people that I'm following that

come up in the for you feed, and I must admit the rest of it's addictive, like crack. So I tend to check the for you stuff because it's the more crazy outland is stuff that lands right whereas and every now and then, like I'm like, I'm like, stop doing strolling, stop doing scrolling, click over to just following, and I'm like, cool, all the stuff that I'm interested in, just the stuff that I'm interested in, and then the crack. I want the crack again, I'm like, for you, and then I see all the crazy stuff and I just get there and then it just repeats that, and then I delete Twitter x and then I go and then I go back on again and then like, I'm just gonna be on following, and then I'm like, I want it crack. I want crack for you. And

then and then I've definitely seen that. Dan and I have the same thing. Where am I following? It's mostly like crypto people, technical people. It's it's very kind of boring. But if I click for you, it'll give me some spicy stuff out the Oakland a's who left town and how people are angry, and I try to block all that because I don't want to be angry anymore. I want to move on from the oaklandays. I'm sad, but I'm moving on. But no, the for you feed does not let you move on. It brings you right back into Oh yeah, I think I also see more of my political stuff in the for you feed, stuff like that, so it is interesting. But yeah, I agree with you that I can't. I can't quit it. The follow is boring, Robert, what do you think? Same same

problem? Follow me Brothers Delete it. Trust me. I'm the angel on your shoulder. Just listen. We're in too deep. But let us know in the comments and the chat below what you think, if you're addicted to social media, if you like one platform better than the other, if you've tried a noster, let us know down below. But yeah, and you. Want to learn about more, if you want to learn more about you rim capital. Let's pronounces pronounce your you're doesn't make it any better my kid's base. But we're rooting for another name. And but Robert got the biblical reference, so you got one, you got one third. It's it's tough numbers though, one third and I usually get the biblical references, so I it was over my head. That's a big reference. But thanks to everybody for joining us in the chat and down below

sending his comments, give us his thumbs up and the subscribe. We're going to try to hold on a little bit at the end of the show, but it keeps cutting off the bye byes. It's really strange. So I'm going to count to five after the bye byes. You guys, let me know if it works. But until next time, Bye boy.